Massive Assault
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Darn Starforce!
http://massiveassaultnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=2279		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Diarmud [ Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Darn Starforce!
Well, I bought this game yesterday, and after a reboot, my computer would not recognize my DVD writer. I rebooted again, and it was fine. I wondered about what could create such a problem...and then I found it. The Dreamcatcher version of this game has the STARFORCE c opy protection system. SIgh...I have been avoiding buying anything with this system, and now I have inadvertaintly installed it on my system. I will give it a few days to see if my system starts acting strangely....if it does, I will uninstall the driver and get rid of the program.

The worst part is that I buy LOTS of games and never pirate, but this version of piracy protection will convince me NEVER to buy another Dreamcatcher product.....
Author:  Burkeman [ Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Agreed - if I was aware that Starforce was a part of this, I would have never purchased the game.

Burkeman
Author:  ecpjak [ Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Star Force
This is new to me, could you explain?

Thanks,
JK
Author:  Three Seven [ Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Darn Starforce!
Diarmud wrote:
The worst part is that I buy LOTS of games and never pirate, but this version of piracy protection will convince me NEVER to buy another Dreamcatcher product.....


That would be more effective if this was a Dreamcatcher forum.
Author:  Diarmud [ Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Yes, I tried that, but there is no group in the Dreamcatcher forums for Domination. Also, by talking about it in this forum, hopefully we can get Wargamer.net to use a different publisher for their next game, assumming that Dreamcatcher continues to use STARFORCE.
Author:  Diarmud [ Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Star Force
ecpjak wrote:
This is new to me, could you explain?

Thanks,
JK


Starforce is a form of CD copy protection. When a game with Starforce is installed, a hidden device driver is installed on your system. Uninstalling the game does not remove the driver. On many people's systems, this driver causes system instability and/or difficulty in writing CD's that have nothing to do with the game being protected. There is a program to remove the driver, but on some systems, this doesn't clear up the problem, so people have had to do operating system reinstalls. Admittedly, this is rare, but given the fact that there are less obtrusive copy protection schemes, it would be better for the customer if this particular scheme is never used.

Now, I will admit that, at present, my system is not suffering any ill effects from the driver, but that may be in part because my computer is relatively new....
Author:  entropyjones [ Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Goddamnit!!!!!

You need to put it on the box that the game is protected by star force. Welp, I agree with the original poster. I'll be damned if I ever buy another game from dream catcher or anybody affiliated with these people.

There is a very good reason why real professional game developers don't use star force.

I'm going to post everywhere that this game is using star force. Kiss your customers good bye scum bags.
Author:  entropyjones [ Sat Mar 26, 2005 12:00 am ]
Post subject: 
The truth about starforce.

http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/48427

YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO PUT THIS CRAP ON PEOPLES MACHINES.

I AM NOT A CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#($&!@#($*!($ YOU!!!!!@!@!
Author:  Brashen [ Sat Mar 26, 2005 12:25 am ]
Post subject: 
I followed the link to the truth about Starforce. Unfortunately, the cleanup utility link is broken.

Anyone have a good link to this utility?

I agree with you all. This is ridiculous.

Been about 6 months since a fresh windows install. Probably about time anyway I guess...
Author:  entropyjones [ Sat Mar 26, 2005 12:29 am ]
Post subject: 
I think this is the best removal tool.

http://www.onlinesecurity-on.com/protect.phtml?c=55

I bought this bloody game today and tomorrow I'm taking it back to EB for some ass kicking. There's no way I am keeping this, I don't care what I gotta do, they are taking this POS back.
Author:  Sky Keeper [ Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:23 am ]
Post subject: 
There were lot's of complaints about StarForce protection in Russia about a year and a half ago when it was just introduced, but recent polls show that only a small number of people (less than 3%) are still having problems.
I know about one case of starforce not functioning with CD-drive (that CD drive needed some drivers installed before it was detected by Win XP SP1). It worked perfectly with all other combinations of system/CD-drive I know about.
When it appeared in Russia it was very difficult to copy (they had to crack an ENGLISH version, then translate it back to RUSSIAN - quite funny). This feature and the low cost of protection buys publishers to ignore those small number of people with problems.
Author:  Rextrent [ Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:39 am ]
Post subject:  Starforce sounds pretty bogus, disrespectful, mayb even evil
Very interesting to hear about this....very disturbing....and I wonder if this driver is why I can't burn ANY dvd's on my "Nero".....(?)
Author:  entropyjones [ Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sky Keeper wrote:
There were lot's of complaints about StarForce protection in Russia about a year and a half ago when it was just introduced, but recent polls show that only a small number of people (less than 3%) are still having problems.
I know about one case of starforce not functioning with CD-drive (that CD drive needed some drivers installed before it was detected by Win XP SP1). It worked perfectly with all other combinations of system/CD-drive I know about.
When it appeared in Russia it was very difficult to copy (they had to crack an ENGLISH version, then translate it back to RUSSIAN - quite funny). This feature and the low cost of protection buys publishers to ignore those small number of people with problems.


Congratulations are confirming my opinion of loathing for these publishers. Can't you people have any concept of fairness? You think it's right to sell games to people that they cannot play and have huge difficulty returning because of some stupid quirk in the copy protection?

This is the preamble to the license agreement for this game.

"This Software License Agreement (“Agreement”) is a legally binding
agreement between DreamCatcher International Inc. (“DreamCatcher”) and
you. Please read the Agreement carefully before using the software. If you
have any questions about it, we encourage you to seek independent legal
advice. By clicking on “I AGREE,” you are agreeing to be bound by the terms
of this Agreement (by law, clicking on the “I AGREE” button constitutes a
valid signature). If you do not agree to be bound by the terms of this
Agreement, please cancel the installation of this application and return the
product to your point of purchase for a refund."

I intend to walk into my EB monday with this printed out. I am going to tell them I cannot agree to the terms and if my money is not returned the EULA is invalid. Someone will be refunding my money for this game one way or another.

Your pretty foolish to think that securing your product is going to be worth lost customers. As for problems with star force.. I noticed an IMMEDIATE slow down upon rebooting and now I have this.

Image



I do not agree or accept that damaging my anti-virus software is ACCEPTABLE for your security. Star Force has damaged my computer.

I take very good care of my computer (I work IT at a university) because I have to fix computers all day long, the last thing I want to do when I come home is have to futz around with my own. I *KNOW* this issue did not exist prior to installing this crap.


BTW, one last thing. Do you see all the game short cuts? Do you have any idea how many games I buy and have bought? I get AT LEAST four games a month. Losing me as a customer is going to hurt a tiny little operation like this. Is it worth it?
Author:  Diarmud [ Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
entropyjones wrote:
The truth about starforce.

http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/48427

YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO PUT THIS CRAP ON PEOPLES MACHINES.

I AM NOT A CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#($&!@#($*!($ YOU!!!!!@!@!



In all fairness, this article was written in the middle of last year, concerning an old version of the drivers. The version of the dirivers that are on the Domination CD are the newest ones, and don't seem to have messed with my computer yet. However, I wish that Dreamcatcher would choose a less obtrusive system.
Author:  Diarmud [ Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
entropyjones wrote:
Sky Keeper wrote:

Your pretty foolish to think that securing your product is going to be worth lost customers. As for problems with star force.. I noticed an IMMEDIATE slow down upon rebooting and now I have this.

Image



I do not agree or accept that damaging my anti-virus software is ACCEPTABLE for your security. Star Force has damaged my computer.



This is interesting....I looked at my set of device drivers and Starforce doesn't seem to be interfering with my anitvirus software, and I also run Norton. Curious.....
Author:  entropyjones [ Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
For me the point is just pretty much you don't know what is going to happen with this software. Is it worth it? Personally, I say hell no...

At least now I have a fresh spanking new OS install :(.

Thanks dreamcatcher.
Author:  Rextrent [ Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've checked out my device manager and it looks okay. It has been very enlightening to see this buzz about the starforce and I am thankful for the information. I would like to see some real assurances from the Dreamcatcher and Domination publishers that this type of thing will be rectified and discontinued. I scoff to think this will happen, but imagine a world where people who were just trying to make a living treated others as they themselves would like to be treated. It is a novel notion while at the same time, an ancient one.
Author:  ChrisCraven [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
With the scum of the earth creating Virus', Hacks, Cracks, worms, trojans and all the other damn crap on the internet and computers people trying to make money will need to protect their products. We will all be treated like thiefs and criminals until the idoits in the world just growup and go away....of course this will never happen, so get over it and get use to being treated this way. The problem is not the people trying to make a living it is all those people who want a free ride!
Author:  entropyjones [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
"With the scum of the earth creating Virus', Hacks, Cracks, worms, trojans and all the other damn crap on the internet and computers people trying to make money will need to protect their products. We will all be treated like thiefs and criminals until the idoits in the world just growup and go away....of course this will never happen, so get over it and get use to being treated this way. The problem is not the people trying to make a living it is all those people who want a free ride!"

Your kidding right? I don't have to get over anything. If I don't like the copy protection the game uses guess what? I can get my money back, and never purchase anything else from this company again. This is far from an industry standard. The fact is that star force as a copy protection is dying precisely because of the issues it is causing. Major developers can't even touch it because their game audience is so large they are bound to create an army of pissed off customers as this thing shreds their machines.

Also, what do virus's, hacks, worms and whatever else your madness compelled you to list as examples of "crap" have to do with a video game's copy protection? I'm at a loss to understand how those things are related to star force, or how star force is going to help against them.

I do agree with you that the developers and publishers have a right to try and protect their content. However, they DO NOT have the right to damage my computer in the process. Nor do they have the right to install software on my machine without informing me. The EULA does not mention star force in anyway, I read the whole bloody thing. Not like EULA's would stand up in court any way, but I think you get my drift.
Author:  GamesMan [ Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, that explains why my home computer's CD rom will not read the game; I've tried everything, and no dice. It works fine at my work computer. And, I have to try to get other CD's to be read by my home computer now, JUST after installing Massive Asault; I never guessed the game itself could be the problem. :x
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